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I'm not really sure where to start. My husband and I have been married 9 years now and have a 6 year old daughter. We met and were married within 3 months. We were young, 19 and 22. Yes we rushed it but I think we are good together. Or can be.
We've had problems with other women almost from day one. I don't believe he's ever cheated but he always manages to find some girl...old friends or new, that has something traumatic going on in their lives and he's just the only person who can help. He gives them more focus and attention than me. If I complain then I'm being selfish and controlling. There's one old friend in particular that we've had many many fights about. He will not stop talking to/seeing her. It's not a lot. Sometimes they go months with out contact. For a while it was years. Thank you myspace for helping him find her again. And now he's emailing and calling an ex girlfriend. She tried contacting him right after we were married...he's told me the reason he never called her back is he knew it was a bad idea to be around her. The past had taught him it didn't matter if he had another girlfriend or not...if he was around her something usually ended up happening.
I've tried being cool and understanding with all these things, I can understand a certain curiosity about past relationships. And I know it's a great thing to be a good friends. What I don't like and what drives me crazy more than anything about all of it is that he tried hiding it all from me. He eventually tells me things but it's always several weeks or months after the fact.
I've done something I'm not proud of, Ive checked his phone and emails without him knowing. I think it just hurt me more than anything.And I've since told him about it...which of course has caused more troubles.
The ex girlfriend and older friend he's told them both that I just don't understand him like they can. And he's told them both they are the only person that really gets him. Odd to me that this one and that one are the "only" ones who gets him.
We have no mutual friends. He goes out with friends every few months but I'm "not invited". He said he "can't be himself" around his friends if I am there.
My argument....how do you know...we've never tried it! He said he hides his contact with these women b/c he knows I'll get mad. I've told him time and again it's not necessarily the contact that makes me angry...it's the hiding it.
I asked him to tell me one time he was upfront with me about a meeting or talking with someone and he couldn't. So how can he say he knows how I will react. I honestly don't know how I would react. I've never been given the chance.
I should mention we are pretty sure my husband has ADD but he's never gone to see anyone about it. I've been trying to encourage him seeking help for it.
He's totally against therapy. No way will he consider marriage counseling.
I've taken a marriage fitness course online on my own, and have just started seeing a counselor for myself.
I'm just not sure what to do about my marriage.
He says he wants to stay together. He doesn't want to leave his daughter. Said he's afraid he will forget me and her if he leaves us.
I told him I don't want him to stay just for her. He will always be her father. I will do everything in my power to encourage that relationship. Again...I think with help we could be great together. I've told him this, but I don't want him staying with me just to be a father...if he's going to hate me and continue to do things that hurt/upset me then it's not of any benefit to me or our daughter.
I guess my question is...when do you know it's time to let go? I don't want to. I want to make it work. But I know I can't make him change. Should I just continue to focus on getting myself straight and taking care of our daughter and give him time to come around?
We've had problems with other women almost from day one. I don't believe he's ever cheated but he always manages to find some girl...old friends or new, that has something traumatic going on in their lives and he's just the only person who can help. He gives them more focus and attention than me. If I complain then I'm being selfish and controlling. There's one old friend in particular that we've had many many fights about. He will not stop talking to/seeing her. It's not a lot. Sometimes they go months with out contact. For a while it was years. Thank you myspace for helping him find her again. And now he's emailing and calling an ex girlfriend. She tried contacting him right after we were married...he's told me the reason he never called her back is he knew it was a bad idea to be around her. The past had taught him it didn't matter if he had another girlfriend or not...if he was around her something usually ended up happening.
I've tried being cool and understanding with all these things, I can understand a certain curiosity about past relationships. And I know it's a great thing to be a good friends. What I don't like and what drives me crazy more than anything about all of it is that he tried hiding it all from me. He eventually tells me things but it's always several weeks or months after the fact.
I've done something I'm not proud of, Ive checked his phone and emails without him knowing. I think it just hurt me more than anything.And I've since told him about it...which of course has caused more troubles.
The ex girlfriend and older friend he's told them both that I just don't understand him like they can. And he's told them both they are the only person that really gets him. Odd to me that this one and that one are the "only" ones who gets him.
We have no mutual friends. He goes out with friends every few months but I'm "not invited". He said he "can't be himself" around his friends if I am there.
My argument....how do you know...we've never tried it! He said he hides his contact with these women b/c he knows I'll get mad. I've told him time and again it's not necessarily the contact that makes me angry...it's the hiding it.
I asked him to tell me one time he was upfront with me about a meeting or talking with someone and he couldn't. So how can he say he knows how I will react. I honestly don't know how I would react. I've never been given the chance.
I should mention we are pretty sure my husband has ADD but he's never gone to see anyone about it. I've been trying to encourage him seeking help for it.
He's totally against therapy. No way will he consider marriage counseling.
I've taken a marriage fitness course online on my own, and have just started seeing a counselor for myself.
I'm just not sure what to do about my marriage.
He says he wants to stay together. He doesn't want to leave his daughter. Said he's afraid he will forget me and her if he leaves us.
I told him I don't want him to stay just for her. He will always be her father. I will do everything in my power to encourage that relationship. Again...I think with help we could be great together. I've told him this, but I don't want him staying with me just to be a father...if he's going to hate me and continue to do things that hurt/upset me then it's not of any benefit to me or our daughter.
I guess my question is...when do you know it's time to let go? I don't want to. I want to make it work. But I know I can't make him change. Should I just continue to focus on getting myself straight and taking care of our daughter and give him time to come around?
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Answers
I think therapy, either with you or alone, is really the only way to make this work, given the restrictions that you provided in your post.
You said that he's against therapy, but I'm wondering if there's a way to get him to agree. First off, I would want to know why he's against it. My guess is that he's afraid of being exposed and forced to confront things he doesn't want to. He might be giving you some other type of excuse. Are his concerns legitimate? Is there a way you can compromise? (Maybe he goes to 4 sessions alone and then you reevaluate?) Can you try and confront the deeper fears he might have of being embarrassed in therapy and perhaps give him some reassurance? You could tell him, for instance, that a therapist will not force him to say anything, and that he will have a chance to meet them first to decide if they are judgmental or pushy.
The other strategy that might work is giving him some insight into the situation. From what you described, what I see is that he does not know how to be himself around you. That is extremely normal, in my opinion. I actually think this is one of the biggest problems we face in modern society: husbands getting tense around their wives because they are afraid to relax and let things be. And when they get nervous and start to put on an act, they hide it from themselves because they are ashamed.
This explains some of the things he's said to you. It also explains why he keeps emotional ties with his exes and says that only THEY can understand him: it's because there is no commitment and expectation there, so he doesn't have to worry about fucking up. In truth, I would guess that he IS more intimate with them. I would also guess that he is dying to be more intimate with you, and have the same relationship with YOU that he has with them.
If you can tell him that, that might strike a chord with him. He isn't the first person to face this. Like I said, I think that kind of tension is the biggest problem in relationships. It goes by different names in different psychological paradigms. Some might call it fearful or avoidant attachment. Others might call it attachment anxiety. Others would just call it ego-driven living. They're all just different ways of describing the same circumstances. But it does go to show you that this is not just HIS problem, and by extension, not just YOUR problem. There are solutions that can help you move forward, with or without him.
Here're some links to help get you started. Best of luck to you both.
On the research side: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_in_adults
On the spiritual side: http://www.examiner.com/x-12188-SF-Interfaith-Spirituality-Examiner~y2009m6d13-Eckhart-Tolle-spiritual-healing-necessary-for-healthy-relationships
Thanks Edahn! That's a very interesting point I've not thought about. I've always thought of it as him not being himself with his friends, not me! I'm going to have to read thru those links and do something thinking on this. I can see that I've been looking at him in the worst light though. I've been thinking he's always more negative and ugly around me. His friends never get to see his dark side so yes, he gets to have a great fun loving time with them. Then he comes home and just lets all the bad stuff out and that's what I am left with. But I see that I've been thinking of him mainly in dark terms. That the bad is more of what he really is. But I know he's not really a bad person. That's just the side I've been getting more often than not. There's just a whole lot that's happened in his life that he's not worked thru.
"it's because there is no commitment and expectation there, so he doesn't have to worry about fucking up." LOL I've thought this for a long while, just haven't been sure what to do with it or how to approach it with him, or if I should even try. Thanks again for giving me another way of looking at this! :)
I think you seem very mature about this problem you're having. I'm also glad you know that you can't make him change. I think you know when it's time to go, if you have expressed what you need in the marriage and he doesn't show he's willing to get help or change. Waiting for him to come around isn't the solution because you'll be waiting a long time and end up frustrated.
As you mentioned at the beginning of your post -this problem with other women has been a pervasive problem from day one. You seem fair is realizing that it's okay to have a freind who's a girl, especially if he was friends before he met you. But I don't think he should be confiding with those women, that he feels emotionally understood by them more than you. You both should be getting your emotional needs met by each other, not outside the marriage.
As far as going out without you - I think it's okay if he's having a 'boy's night out'. But if he's going out with guy and girls then you should be included. You both should also be going out as a couple once in a while.
I really think this kind of man has the potential to be a cheater. This kind of man needs outside stimulation and attention to feel good about himself. If he suspects he has ADD then he should see his doctor because there's medication that could make him more focused.
I think you need to have a nice calm talk with him to find out if he's willing to get marriage counselling together to save your marriage - it's important that he genuinely wants to change and not do it as a bandaid solution or temporary fix. It could be that he's happy the way he is and doesn't want to change. If this is the case then you and he should separate - it's very good that you want to be reasonable about respecting that he should be in your daughter's life. Best of luck to you and your family, Bella
Thanks for the encouragement Bella! It's nice think I'm on the right track with anything at this point. Counseling is certainly something I am going to stick with for awhile.
We do go out just the two of us, but never the two of us as a part of a larger group of people.
As for the ADD he's mentioned that he's afraid to take meds. He think it will turn him into someone else, a zombie or something. The more I read about it I'm hearing more and more that for men esp. the hardest part is getting their stubborn heads to take that first step and seek the help that's out there. There are so many misconceptions about ADD and the treatment options. So I've been trying to do my research and casually get any information that I think might help him within his reach, but I don't want to push too hard for fear it will send him in the opposite direction.
Sorry to hear about your relationship. To answer the question, enough is enough when both parties no longer bring out anything good in each other. When you cause each other nothing but suffering, despite how much you care, or where the issues came from.
Everyone deserves the chance to be happy. If you believe this is still possible, then stay because you obviously care about him. If you two as a couple are holding each other down then leave.
I am not trying to be one sided here, but I believe your concerns are valid. What stuck out in your post the most to me was the fact he is afraid if he leaves he will forget you and your child. Yet obviously leaving did not cause him to forget his ex year after year. I am going to be blunt and say he loves her. For whatever reason they can't be together, he has not committed himself fully to a relationship with you. Which means letting each other in. I am sorry you feel neglected, pushed away and uninvolved.
Your love for him is obvious, and if you are willing to hang in there I can tell you this story. My aunt chased after my uncle (who was very much a ladies man). She was determined and hung in there through many infidelities and indiscretions. They have been married over forty years, and the other day this guy says, "I finally realized I am in love with my wife." There is a chance he will come around. The decision for you is how much you are willing to sacrifice in the meantime, and if through time those sacrifices and compromises will change the way you feel for him.
"What stuck out in your post the most to me was the fact he is afraid if he leaves he will forget you and your child. Yet obviously leaving did not cause him to forget his ex year after year." haha ... don't know how I've not noticed that one before. Very good point. And just one more that shows all the confusion we are both struggling with! Thanks!!!
Hi checkmate,
how frustrating it is to be the person in the relationship who is doing all the work. I hear how disappointed and hurt you are. I am also hearing some other things too.
When I read through your post It seemed to me that you have matured emotionally, but your husband hasn't. You've also done some work taking an online marriage fitness course online and are in counseling. You have also said that you were young and rushed into marriage but you believed that you 'could' be good together. You also say that you have had problems with other women from day one. That your husband has sought out the company of old female friends and has also admitted that 'things usually happen' when he is around one of them.
It is interesting that you say you you believed you 'could be good together' not that you already were good together. I'm just reflecting here, but were you hoping that in time after you were married and had a child, that your partner would change and be the person you wanted.
What you have described is a husband who isn't taking your emotional hurt seriously and isn't willing to listen to what you are saying. His behavior to me, doesn't sound like a partner who is playing an equal part in the relationship and he doesn't sound like he is prioritizing his role as a husband and father and a partner to you. A relationship involves two people working together.
You seem to have done all you can to work on the problem in the relationship and you are still not getting your needs met. Even though your daughter is young, you are modeling to her that a woman's role in the relationship doesn't matter as your husband is doing what pleases him.
Perhaps it's time to tell your husband that, unless he is willing to work on the relationship; and that would involve seeing a relationship counselor and for your husband to doing some researching and reading material on relationships, so that you can both work on the problems, that you are no longer interested in remaining in a marriage with him. You are right when you say you cannot change him. However, while you put all your energy into trying to make this relationship work, you are not putting energy into finding someone who wants to have a relationship with you and is capable of meeting your needs, someone who is mature enough to be able put the work into keeping a relationship healthy.
I hope this helps.
FPSY,
I'm not really sure what I was thinking at first. I really had little to no relationship experience when we met and I guess more than anything I just jumped headfirst into everything with my naive thoughts of happily ever after and that everything will work out. Well...I still believe that everything will work itself out for the best. It's just my idea of what the best should be has become the question. I guess one of my biggest fears/concerns at this point is...I love my husband and I want to see him happy. And I've told him this, whether we stay together or not, for him, and for our daughter I want to see him get help and do whatever it takes for him to be the best person he can. He has so much potential inside him but he struggles a lot with getting even the littlest things accomplished. Again I think a lot of this could go back to the ADD if that's what's really going on. And our daughter's teacher this past year voiced a few concerns about her being able to focus and stay on task. So if it really is ADD that we are dealing with in him and her, I feel like this is not only an opportunity for him to help himself but to be an amazing example for his daughter and show her that even though it's not always going to be easy that it can be managed. (we are taking daughter for her annual next week and going to talk with the pediatrician about this so maybe that will be a turning point for my husband as well?) Maybe I am putting too much pressure on him. I'm trying not too. But can never really see it clear from his point of view. But at the same time I don't want to go so far out of my way trying to find this perfect balance tip toeing around him and in the end only be enabling him more.
"Even though your daughter is young, you are modeling to her that a woman's role in the relationship doesn't matter as your husband is doing what pleases him." This is something that worries me a LOT. What am I teaching my daughter? And it's something I've mentioned to my husband very recently. I told him I'm at the point where I am dangerously close to putting my foot down once and for all and saying this is it. LOL he said I've done that several times already, I can't remember ever telling him that. I've backed off a lot in the past, I tell him how I feel about the situation, but have never given him an ultimatum....and I still hesitate thinking even if he does accept and tells me ok...I'm going to do this and that and I'll stop talking to the ex and all...there's still a part of me that's going to have a hard time trusting that. And so I know that's something I need to work on on my own. No matter what happens with us...I've got to get me straight.
Hi checkmate,
I can see that you love your husband. You are right perhaps 'the best that your husband can be' isn't what he wants, or isn't what he is capable of at the moment. Perhaps your expectations exceed his skills at the moment.
He might have ADD, but that would be a separate situation to the other problems about his role and responsibilities in the relationship. Plus it is his responsibility to acknowledge that he might have ADD and do something about it.
If you husband decided tomorrow to go to marriage counseling or find his own counselor there is no guarantee that change will happen quickly. It takes time for people to change. You might already be at breaking point. Is this affecting your health wise, it certainly is affecting your psychologically. The change that you see might not be what you expect.
One of the biggest issues in relationships is people getting married or into committed partnerships and trying to change the person to be who they want them to be. The key is to waiting until we find that person in the first place. Sometimes people grow together, and other times they grow apart.
What is it that you fear about leaving your husband? What makes you think that staying in a present unhealthy relationship is better than being single?
I can see how you believe that things can all work out for the best. But it's not really time that changes things. It's people, sometimes a circumstance forces people to change, but it's people and their actions that make the change.
"What is it that you fear about leaving your husband? What makes you think that staying in a present unhealthy relationship is better than being single?"
I've been thinking on this for a few weeks now actually. I'm not afraid to be alone. I know I will be ok no matter how things go. All I can come up with is 1. I hate failure. I just don't want to fail at this. 2. I know I have to be sure I've done everything possible to make it work. 3. There are still some good times. They're not the majority, but enough to keep me hanging on.
As for physical symptoms...yea...there's been a few. If that gets worse it just might be my breaking point.
"I've been thinking on this for a few weeks now actually. I'm not afraid to be alone. I know I will be ok no matter how things go. All I can come up with is 1. I hate failure. I just don't want to fail at this. 2. I know I have to be sure I've done everything possible to make it work. 3. There are still some good times. They're not the majority, but enough to keep me hanging on. "
I could have written this myself, regarding an ex of mine. I finally realized it came down to an issue of pride. My pride was causing him suffering. He didn't want to work at it, and had stopped trying a while back, and I continued, because I hate failure as well. I became controlling, demanding, felt hurt, angry, while staying motivated to make it better. When I came to the breaking point, it was almost an act of mercy to ask him to leave. Knowing that nothing else could be done, and any further time spent would simply cause more damage, more unhappiness.
I would say if you are looking for a last ditch effort, allow your husband to read these posts which were serious, and from your heart. Let him see the responses, and the fact you are willing to do anything to make it work. If he still neglects to even WANT to TRY to work on things, set him free, and enjoy the weight, that you are carrying alone, to be lifted from your shoulders.
Best of luck.
Hi checkmate,
I don't believe in the word failure. It's such a destructive, disabling and shaming way to describe our experiences in life. It often leaves people feeling bad and inadequate. I would re-frame that word into something that encourages openness. Peoples fear of failure prevents them from participating fully in life. Everything is an experience, some good and some bad but always an opportunity for growth and more learning. If you decide to separate from your husband it would not be a failure, but allowing space for a different way of being in life and it would be a change. You would have knowledge that you did all you could to make it work, that is success. It's not your responsibility to make this relationship work. That is a burden that you are placing on yourself. Every problem in a relationship is a shared problem and one that requires the input of two people.
I hope this helps I wish you well.
All the posts here have been very informative and I agree with them all. I would like to address the concept of 'failure' in a relationship. I agree completely with Fpsy on this, that I don't like the word failure. I think most people inadvertenly choose partners that end up teaching them important life lessons - once the lesson is learned many times we outgrow our partner and need t omove on. Some experts believe that many disfunctional relationships occur because they actually chopse partners(subconsciously), who have traits similar to one of their parents(who they had issues with). This happens because people NEED to work through deep underlying unresolved pain. For example a woman who as a child had a father who was a womanizer may choose a man with similar issues.
If you decided to split, it wouldn't be failure especially if you've put forth your best effort. It's important to ask yourself - what life lesson can I learn from this? If your husband isn't willing to participate in making the marriage better, then I would be concerned with staying and living half a life - that to me is failure. I think the key here is he would need to want to change because he wants to and I have a feeling he's happy the way he is. You could be perfect in every way, but this won't fix him.
Another thing I wanted to point out is, alot of changes take place between 22-28 and depending on maturity levels, you both may be in different stages. You may have just outgrown him. I think he needs to understand the seriousness of your marriage problem. Ask yourself what are your longterm goals in life? I hope you find peace.
Hey Checkmate, I guess all the experts have pretty much summed it up for You. Counseling, Counseling, Counseling. It seems like every problem that anyone has ever faced can be fixed simply by getting some counseling, according to the "Experts" and it may be true, Maybe. I don't really think that if two people don't get along or whatever may be happening between them at the time that's enough to make them think of splitting up, another person, expert or not, that doesn't have the perspective of either of the two is really going to be able to help. I mean, think of how You get along with your best girls friends. What is it about them that make them such good friends that You will be so for Your whole lives? What happens when You fight with them or when they do something that upsets You? Do You seek counseling to mend the friendship? Do You request that they do the same? I am not a big fan of marriage, though I am married. My wife and I are going through something similar except that other women are not really the issue with us but, we are together now mostly for our kids. If we had no children, I seriously doubt we would be together today however, we both might be much happier. I'm just saying I kinda know where You're coming from. I loved my wife more than I can express with words before we got married, and she loved me. Now, We're just sorta going through the motions. I stay to be a good father and she stays so her kids don't grow up in a broken home like her. I firmly believe that getting married ruined our relationship, our lives. Hell even deciding to get married changed things, even though we discussed that very problem and agreed that we wouldn't let that be an issue. I think the problem is that after two people get married, they start taking Their vows and their lives way too seriously. When two people are dating, things are just not so definite, if that makes any sense. After getting married, people start thinking of each other as theirs like their car or their couch, in a matter of speaking, like possessions. Not as temporary or trivial as a car or a couch of course but in the same context, something they have accomplished or acquired. How could a stranger to the relationship, no matter how qualified or distinguished, tell two people how to feel about each other or how to accept the changes one wants the other to make. I guess my point is, no matter how much counseling someone gets, You still have to LIKE the person You're with, Love alone is not going to cut it. Anyway, this is just my humble opinion and relationship advice is probably the last thing I should be offering, since my own marriage is on the rocks so to speak. Maybe if things work out for You, You could give Me a little advice because I'm having problems with LIKE and LOVE as well. SEE YA! CAR
CAR,
I can totally see what you mean about marriage changing things. It shouldn't but it does. LOL one of my friends was married recently to a guy she's been living with for over 8 years now. But she said now that they are married she's all nervous and doesn't know how she's supposed to act around him. It's funny because it's true. And I think you're right. It seems the fun of dating seems to disappear with all the stress and seriousness of life. I get along great with my girlfriends b/c I don't see them every day. Space is certainly a necessity in a marriage. I read the post you put up and can totally feel your frustration. It's all such a vicious cycle. She does something that makes you react..she reacts to your reaction and round and round it goes. I can see the same kind of cycle in my marriage. I know that if I can just stop, take a step back and leave him be for awhile then that's the best chance I've got of saving things. It's just trying to quite that little demon on my shoulder that keeps nagging me about what's he doing with who now and not telling me about it. That's really what the counseling is about for me. Not necessarily someone stepping into the middle of our marriage to referee. More someone to help me take a hard look at myself, figure out why I do what I do...and how to go about making changes on the things I want to change. So much of it is just learned behavior and bad habits. Which, just like smoking or eating junk...it's not always an easy thing to break...or to learn a better way. But it can be done. I know it's totally possible to love someone but not really like them. It happens every day. I believe the liking can be rebuilt, but it takes a lot of work from both parts. I have a lot of hope, dreams, and ideas...just not many answers. I wish you luck with your situation though. The best advice I could give would be to take a look at yourself and see if there's anything you could be doing different. We can only control ourselves. And only you can decide what's really best for your children. If you think you alone is the very best option then do your research and talk to a lawyer. But be prepared for all the possibilities of how things could go. Don't let all the what if's stop you if you know this is the right thing to do...but don't let yourself get side swiped by something either. I hope ya'll can get everything worked out, and I hope everyone is ok with all the medical problems as well. Good luck.
While I can understand the perfection idea--and the idea of wanting things to work--you cannot make it so.
If he will not change, and he continues to hang around the other girls and expects you to let him to continue to be their knight in shining armor--there can be two problems--either you are hypersensitive, or he feels the marriage is lacking something.
Which do you feel it is?
Best,
Clyde