I'm hoping to find some answers and hear from someone that can relate to what I'm facing.

I am a 19-year-old, female, intellectual without much direction or guidance. I am in search for a logical reason to live.

Life is meaningless. I think any qualified scientist, or merely anyone with a capacity of freethought, would somehow come to the conclusion that nothing really matters. "Life's a bitch, and then you die." This mindset, however, ends up being detrimental to my emotional state and is currently inching me closer and closer to (what I see as) a logical suicide.

I've tried to explain this thought process to a few respectable peers, who simply do not have answers I couldn't logically come up with alone. Some say, "It's just a part of growing up." "You'll get over it.." "Occupy your mind." ..It's true, I don't have many hobbies, or much to occupy my mind with. I do sit at home a lot, and I tend to be reclusive. The biggest downfall to this mind set is my lack of motivation, and my eager indulgence in instant gratification. My hatred and fear of conformity disables me from living beyond basic, conditioned survival instincts. I work to eat, pay rent, and buy tangible things that cause intangible emotions, that are utterly unfulfilling. I feel as though I am nothing more than an animal. I have the tools I need to succeed, and to attain "happiness", but I just don't see a point in exerting energy that I CLEARLY don't care to exert. (I, for one, call it laziness and I understand what I need to do to fix things, I just don't.) Most everything in my life is temporary.. My interest in human interaction and bonding experiences is very minimal. I don't have any standing relationships with anyone, including my family. I lie about the most inane things and i constantly feel like nothing is real.. like everything is a dream. As if, reason for my existence will hit me upside the head at any moment.. But when?

I've concluded it doesn't matter whose lives i touch, the amount of love i give and receive, if i leave an honorable legacy, rear my children to become successful... Nothing matters.

So, why don't I kill myself? Am I too lazy to go through with it, just as I am with everything else in my life? Is it just too messy? I mean, I sit here with complete certainty that everything I do, everyone else has already done a thousand times before. Considering, I don't plan to become a master physicist, a mathematician, or to be anything that could allow me to TRULY understand this world's laws and boundaries.. so, really, I am just a speck of something that simply could exist, or not. Ultimately, it doesn't matter.

Am I clinically depressed, sociopathic, crazy, or simply out of luck? Do many people come to this realization? Is there a term for it?

Am I supposed to just be okay with this? Should I reprogram my subconscious to think differently, to conform, or otherwise?

Honestly, I don't know if it would have been better to have been born to Bible thumping Christians or a to an extremest Islamic family.. Ignorance sounds appealing.

I hope someone can relate, because I refuse to live like this.


2869 days ago
Howdy DanielleS91,

Not a psychologist, but might have an answer on why to keep living from a biological perspective.

To reproduce.

Not trying to be smug or mean, just giving the logical answer.

Something that may help brighten your days and possible get ya going is to find something you enjoy doing and strive to become the best at it. If you enjoy it, than the lack of motivation should not be a problem since you know you like doing whatever it is.

Example: Piano playing or singing. Tangible, stirs emotions of happiness and achievement as you become better.

Cooking - Try a new recipe. If it fails, big whoop only you know about it, so try another one.

Do some things that make you happier. Focus on the happy. Logical mindsets are a beast to deal with (fight mine daily as I deal with illogical teenagers).

Hope this helps.

2869 days ago
Show / Hide

2869 days ago
hello Danielle

I am a "qualified scientist" and very capable of "free thought" and I totally disagree with your conclusion that "nothing really matters"

It isnt just a case of picking a hobby or occupying your mind...it is exploring your talents and abilities until you find something you are passionate about. *That* brings meaning to life. Different people are motivated and satisfied by different things. Some find fulfillment in work and others in their extramural activities

For some people it can be finding someone to love and be loved by, or yes, having children that brings them essential fulfillment

For many, their religious faith provides their purpose to life, and the extension of service to others that often accompanies that

one thing is for sure...if you just sit there intellectualizing without ever exploring anything that just may bring you purpose...then yes, you likely will be very miserable.

How can you possibly judge so harshly that which you have never experienced?

perhaps a trip to the doctor to make sure things are ok physically would be a good idea too, as yes, hormonal or other chemical imbalances can mess with our minds too

and ps bioswm was giving you a biological answer, so not sure why you would extrapolate that so personally as to mean being a teen mother.

Nature clearly points to reproduction in plants and animals as being the driving force in life.

2869 days ago
I sense you're obviously very negative, so I'm not going to give you a Polly Anna answer. I guarantee, the way you think when you're 19, will change for the better as you get older. The truth is, sometimes life is crappy. I think people have this unrealistic perception, life is supposed to be happy, but they're always trying to find and don't really know how to get it - it's elusive for so many.

I believe life is a journey and even the bad experiences can teach us something. Maybe you're ungrateful for what you do have - I'm sure homeless people would love to have what you have. If you feel disillusioned with the concept of working like a dog to buy meaningless things, then minimize and lead a simple life - smaller house, basic car(electric motorcycle), abandon the notion of competing with the Jones's. You would then be able to work less and save more money, you could use to travel.

Sounds like you have questions about life and maybe the whole idea of Western society just doesn't appeal to you - try reading up on the Buddhist philosophy. Personally I believe we're all like pieces in a puzzle and our purpose isn't always clear to us. Have you tried volunteering for something you're passionate about?

I can tell you from experience, that it totally stinks, when a family member kills themselves. My brother killed himself 2 yrs ago. It's shocking, devastating and it also made me very angry. These are the emotions you'll inflict on your loved ones and friends. Your legacy will be - you're the one 'who killed herself'. I would rather be a garbage lady and be known as that -than the a person who killed themselves'.

It's fine to ask deep questions about life, but not if it brings you to the conclusion of suicide! If this is a new feeling, I suggest you tell your doctor. If you've always felt pessimistic, then you should speak with a therapist, to figure out how to work out these feelings. If you have good physical health, I encourage you, to appreciate it when you're young. Often people don't value their very basic life, until their health fails - then they say "oh if only I could have another year" Look outside yourself and make a difference in someone elses life. Last but not least, dieing isn't easy - can be painful and messy. If you're discovered before you die, you may end up injured or disabled and in a worse position that before. I sense you're very angry - do you know that is?

2869 days ago
You sound like a very Intellegent young woman. You seem to be in touch with some of the realiys of exsisitence and some of the illusions that western society promotes.

You are right in one sense, each human or for that matter, each creature is born, lives, and then dies. Dispite our brains capacitys and wonders, we still follow that Sacred Cycle. It is known as the "Great Circle" or the "Great Mystery". To some it is known as "The Good Red Road".

Yes, our world is tiny compared to the sun, and the Sun is just a dust partical compared to the galaxy and the galaxy is just a speck of dust in the universe. Those facts can make one feel insigificant for sure.

Now I want to introduce you to the Power of these realitys. You are still part of the Great Mystery of our Universe and all its POWERS. Those powers are within each of us as it is in every living thing. It is awesome to be part of such power and to have it within us.

Use these Powers to understand your self and the universe around you. You are part of these powers, so why not go for it, feel and become part of all there is and live and learn from these powers. Delveop a True and personal connection to all there is.

You are right about being an "Aminal" for humans are an aminal, no diffent than Apes, monkeys, cats, dogs, or Eagles. Having expanded Mental Capactiys does not make Humans better, they just make us diffent. Because of this fact, try making a connection to the Aminal world the let Aminals Teach you. Each Amainal is a power you can learn from.

The myths of "Occupying Your Mind" with something will not work in your case. All the sub catagories under that Myth will not work. Such as to become realy good at a craft or occupation. That will not help you feel better on a deep level. You may experience satifaction, but not true well being. Always being preoccupied in Mind will keep you form your Hearts true feelings. Feelings are a big part of Human exsisitence and they are part of the universe power too. They are a power on to them selfs and worth experienceing.

You will disscover a true joy inside yourself once you feel connected to the universe and all its powers.

The is much more I say say about this, but the limitaions of this format keeps form saying everything at once. For starters view my Youtube Channel at: www.youtube.com/growingtreeaz

To see how I have developed my personal connection to the power that is within myself. The Universe.

2869 days ago
Forget it, this was a bad idea. I suppose i just need to grow up and get over this. It's terribly frustrating to hear what i already know over and over. I'm bitter because I come off as a ungrateful pessimist, but in reality, I've worked for whatever I do have. I moved out at sixteen from a horribly abusive and dysfunctional family. I've seen life from many angles, as I have lived in many homes and learned to appreciate other ways of life. I can find beauty and divinity in this Earth by watching something grow, but being a teen mother is a AWFUL idea. I can't fully love anyone or anything anyway. I hurt everyone without any cruel intent, I'm just so impulsive I hurt people I care about constantly.

I definitely need to go speak with someone, I just thought this might help. I thought maybe someone had felt the same way at some point in their life..

2869 days ago
I dont understand why you think anyone suggested you should be a teen mother Danielle? when the comment was made about reproduction it was stated as a biological example by the other poster, not as a suggestion that you should get pregnant to find purpose in life!

I think we all go through phases where things seem low and hopeless, and so yes, those feelings are not foreign to us.

Everyone has up times or down times in life

But when one is stuck in those down and hopeless feelings, that usually indicates help is needed

It is very possible that your youthful experience in a dysfunctional family may have colored your perspective so darkly. Having therapy to help you work through those feelings may be helpful

I dont think it was a bad idea for you to begin expressing how you feel here. But when you ask people for their perspective, it is a good idea to not just reject what they say so quickly without even seeming to have reflected on it

I hope you find answers that will help you find meaning and purpose, and especially I hope you will give yourself the chance to be happy.

2869 days ago
Mountainlion, LOL! Good luck capturing the spirits at Spirit Mountain! Answer this- how does that fulfill your life? I mean, if i pick up ghost hunting will all of this go away?

All too many people try to make this world "work for them." They invent Gods to "occupy their minds" Santa Claus to spice things up and hobbies to manipulate their brains into forgetting what is actually going on here. I envy those who can just sit back and enjoy the little things, while scientists are coming to realize that humans may just have to accept that we will never live outside of the fourth dimension. We have to accept that our little brains don't have the capacity to actually understand what's going on.. just like six-legged ants building a colony. I guess what gets me the most is what we, as humans, have collectively come up with as a standard of living. I am throughly unimpressed and truly discouraged to go on. The thought of killing myself isn't sad though. It just is.

2869 days ago
I'm sorry you had a bad up bringing and good for you, for making it on your own. I agree no one was saying you should become a teen mother - the poster was talking about basic procreation. Maybe due to your bad upbringing, you became wired into thinking negatively.

I think you just don't like the Western society and that's fine. I think you should do some reading about alternative living styles and Buddhism. If you don't like this standard of living, look for a different style. Just because you can't conform is no reason to eliminate yourself.

2869 days ago
LOL.. picking up "Ghost Hunting" will not bring true well being. True well being comes with getting in touch of the power of the universe that is all ready within You and having a personal connection with all there is, and the experiences you will have as a result.

The feelings your expericeing now will not go away over night. For they have roots in your growing up, modern culture, and all other teachers and experiences you have had. These Things have made Walls around you, and now You Want Out!!! My people call those Walls "The Circle Of Foxes".

You are affraid to walk Though those Walls, Thus you feel Death is the only way out. It is certanly a way out, but not the ONLY or best way out.

Come... Fly With Me, lets us begin our Journey from those walls that are enclosing you. This [email protected] forum is an excellent starting point. Many here, want freedom from their walls. Counseling will help you get an understanding of those experiences and poeple who made those walls around you. Though Learning, Understanding, and Experiencing New ideas and Perceptions...Can and Will help you walk right through those Walls!!! You already have a Warrior Power within you do do all this.

Come! Fly With Me! Lets begin and Experience the Joy, Pains, Freedom, Feelings, and Excitement will come to us as we free oneself form those Walls!! Life is a powerfull gift given to us by the universe. Don't cut it sort it because of those Walls. For someone like you, those walls will be easly walked through.

2868 days ago
Well hello there friend! :)

I think everything you said is 100% accurate. I think it would be an insult to your intelligence to try and suppress the question you're asking by labeling it as a phase or a byproduct of adolescence or depression. I think these questions are important, if not sacred.

I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, exactly. I'm in the exact same situation, where I see no meaningful consequence to any of my action because every result or outcome seems equally meaningless. I don't particularly understand why that would compel someone to suicide, since logically, suicide would be equally meaningless. Confusion and hesitation and a lack of motivation or determination, I can fully understand, however.

So now what. I am not really sure myself. I wish I had a logical answer, but I don't think there really is one. I'll tell you what keeps me going, though. It's not information and it's not a philosophy. It's a belief, or faith, that (ah! you're hoping I won't say Jesus, aren't you! lol) some people have been able to transcend these questions. I'm not a religious person--I'm an atheist by trade--but I have faith that people like Einstein, Siddartha Gautama, Frankl, and Thoreau have managed to both ask these questions and find some type of relief. I also admit that I don't know everything, and that logic and philosophy may not ultimately answer that type of question. I know that might sound strange, but the universe is strange.

My advice to you would be to find people who have answered these questions with information, rather than just through blunting their minds with medications or nonsense ideas. See what they thought and more importantly, what they did. How did they answer the questions you have? How did they overcome existential angst (which is probably the best term you can use to capture your experience)? One thing you might find is that these people lives simple lives without too many needs. You'll also find that they were all pacifists in some form or another. I'm not saying that that's enough to answer your question, but those are some leads to get you started.

I'm glad you wrote in today, since this issue has been bothering me immensely and it's good to know other people are just as crazy as I am. :)


2868 days ago
Hi DanielleS91,

No you are not alone in thinking this way. I’m 21, not too far from you in age if that gives me any credibility in regards to life experiences and a shared generation. I was actually contemplating this morning on my way to my statistics final how apathetic I felt. I waited until the last minute to study and reluctantly pulled myself out of bed to go take the exam. And as I walked to class thinking about how arduous if felt to take each step from the bus across campus I wondered- is this life? It seems so monotonous. So empty. So mundane and futile. Apathy. Is life merely “going through th motions?” Am I going to graduate, get a job, make money, eat, sleep, and that be my existence. So yes, like you I’ve thought about suicide if my aforementioned thoughts don’t allude to it well enough.

But the feeling fades at times because I am reminded of meaning, meaning that makes living and needing to live undeniable. Yes, life and existence, and humanity are realities that are undeniably wonderful and painful and sad and joyful and horrible. There is such depth to existence that ending your life you’d be robbing your mind (which is clearly full of thought) and soul (not sure if you believe in souls, but I do) of being. You are not an animal merely existing to “eat, pay rent, and buy tangible things that cause intangible emotions, that are utterly unfulfilling.” Can you do something for me? Try to remember a time when you felt a strong emotion. Did someone or something make you really angry? Did taste a piece of pumpkin bread that put the biggest smile across your face because the taste just made your mouth so darn happy? Did you see a couple cross your path and see the light in their faces- they were in love and you saw that in them? Have you been outside and walked amongst the trees and felt surrounded by the grandeur of nature so much so it made you want to cry? Any emotion, any feeling, any connection you can make. Now put it in your mind. How do you react to it? Did you give it a second thought. Does any of it feel meaningful? Tangible? Does it feel real? The thought. The experience. The connection. Even if it is hard to remember how you feel/felt about it just try to think about what crossed your mind. I have great difficulty getting in touch with my “feelings” and gear more toward the “thinking” and analytical realm. But if you can remember an experience like that, you’ve made connections to it. Your eyes and heart took in what you saw, your brain made more neural connections, and as you read this you accessed those connections in order to connect with that event. You are alive, you are full of life, in your brain Danielle, you have thoughts and experiences that no one else or ever will have. Sure, people have done and thought things that each and everyone of us has thought before. But not in the same order, not with the same background, not with the same experiences or relationships that shaped how you perceive every single experience. Danielle, you ARE important. I care about YOU and what happens in your life. You are not an animal that’s mere purpose is to live and die. You have a purpose, you have experiences that no one else but you has had, you have things to offer this world. Know that you are not alone. Know that other people feel this way. I have and still feel this way at times. But I am reminded that life is not futile. I am reminded that living and experiencing life in my head, in my heart, in my soul is undeniably fulfilling.

I ask that you take a step back and access the moments when reality and existence and emotion have touched your being so much that life was undeniable that you thought in your head that it was worth it, that it was worth it to make it on your own, that it was worth it to get a job, that it was worth it to eat, to sleep, to wake up, that it was worth it to do anything.

I am sorry this is a long post and I am sorry if it seems a bit disorganized, I like to write but don’t practice nearly enough. I have more to say, more to discuss but I’m stopping now to see if you have a response to this. To see what your thoughts are. I am interested in what you have to say and I am interested in what you think. You mentioned that you are minimally interested in human interaction and bonding experiences. I understand. Sometimes I would like to live in my shell of solitude but relationships make life meaningful. They make life worth living. They bring to your life and mind experiences and thoughts you would never know or come to on your own. We are social beings whether some of us seem to have been born with social ineptitude or not. That being said, I’ll be your friend if you want one.

2868 days ago
Thank you to everyone that has responded. I truly appreciate it.

Edahn, thank you. It's incredibly comforting you're able to relate on such a level. "So now what" is my exact question! Now what do I do once I can't find meaning in happiness.. Once happiness becomes illogical and petty?

I'm looking for the answer to "So now what?"

I've read a lot of books about self hypnosis, reprogramming the subconscious and (as I see it) manipulating the deductive logic- so finely tuned into our every move. It's interesting stuff. Yet, i feel like I'm joking myself after meditating or seeing something that causes profound happiness. It's as if I come back to reality. It's daunting and I feel like all of the common self-help-book-answers are obvious, I'm looking for something else..

I thought for a long time, being in any other state of mind would be better than living in this society. Drugs, of course, were/are appealing on so many levels. I have a strong interest in hallucinogens. I haven't abused or excessively taken any drugs, but when I do take hallucinogens, I take them alone. I like to let my mind play and my ego die. Swim around my imagination and catch a glimpse of cosmic consciousness. Hehe, hope I'm not worrying anyone out there. I realize now drugs are just drugs and you're simply just high and silly when you decide to take them. However, I do think it's interesting how drugs let you escape from reality. I can respect the crazy homeless man tweeking on H that just didn't know where to go, or what to do, with the thoughts he was having.

Edahn, I am at that point where I am searching for people who have thought the same way as I, and what they did. In fact, this posting is exactly that. Let me know if you ever figure it out! Thanks again.

Think- That was a very touching entry and in terms of feeling happiness, your comment did nothing but cause just that.

It was really hard to think of a specific moment. First, I thought about this one time my best friend and I ate mushrooms and it was the happiest I ever felt.. But that's not the right answer.. So, I thought harder and I thought about my high school boyfriend, and how much I loved him.. Nothing specific. I don't really find sentimental value in memories I suppose. I also don't love him anymore and i've grown up since then. I'm trying now to think of some milestone in my life, but all i can think about is all the things I wasn't able to experience due to unforgiving circumstances.

I also can't remember much of my childhood at all. Like, I really try to, and I draw a blank. Who am I? Perhaps I have lied so many times I forget what's true. I certainly do lie a lot but I've made an active effort not to in last year. It's just so natural.

I feel the same way, ALL THE TIME- like nothing is real. I fantasize while I am holding a conversation about watching myself have that conversation.. If that makes sense? I have these moments of almost a dis-attachment feeling from my mind and body. I fade back into the conversation, and it usually surprises me that I just communicated with someone else. Like, I can recall exactly what was said except I don't feel like I was there. A lot of the time, I think as if i'm watching my life and analyzing everything behind a screen. It's so subjective, and I can't make any sense of it.

When I think of something to live for, I think of technology. It'd be cool to see what we can do once we've fully mapped the brain and created AI. I have faith (yes the dreadful word..faith) it will be done in my lifetime. Now, more than ever before, is a time of technological revolutions. But it sucks living with the "i guess i'll just do it" mentality. I've told myself "well if you're not gonna kill yourself, then fuckin' be productive." But i just don't want to be a slave in this society. I'm just unmotivated.

Yes, I have very little interest in human interaction. I despise half the world anyway so it's meaningless to let people in my life that are unintelligent and incapable of conversation with substance. It's just absurd how many people there are like that, and even more so how many of them have come in and out of my life. I rid so many people from my life and with zero hesitation. I get bored of people. It's like I've lost that intrinsic feeling of compassion for a person. I literally don't have ONE person in my life that I could care less if I never see them again. Not one person that really knows me for me.. Whatever the hell that means.

So what now?

Think, I am interested in anything else you have to say. Let me know if you'd like to exchange e mails or something.

2868 days ago
The drug use doesn't personally bother me as long as you use it responsibly. I'm 30, and graduated college pretty recently myself. ;)

It's good that you've come to look for answers here at this site. If you find some leads, awesome. But I think you'll probably have to ask even wiser people. Luckily, that's easy to do with books. I would really suggest you pick some of those up. You can go over to a bookstore and just browse for a few hours. See what the wise men (and women) have to say. Find someone you admire and trust, and then give it a try.

I noticed you mentioned meditation. If you find happiness there, but then find that when you "come back" your mind kind of ruins the experience for you, then maybe one place to investigate is that moment when your mind spoils your contentment. How does it go about that? Is it real? Does it really make legitimate arguments? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I think that's a good place to study though.

If you keep looking for answers, you'll find them. Just look hard and don't be too lazy to put effort into activities that might actually produce contentment. You've got a great, inquisitive mind. In Zen, there's a motto I like: "in order to achieve enlightenment, you need 3 things, great faith, great doubt, and great effort.

2868 days ago

2867 days ago
I am 63, and except for 3 years in the army lived with abuse....a childhood of poverty( no phone, car, refrigerator or bathroom), molested, 120-year old tenement house with cockroaches and rats and snow which came in thru a crack in the wall.....it's all in my memoir....I decided no one could help me, so I joined the army...from a little town in Maine to San Francisco at the Height of the Vietnam war, hippies,

I am a believer (christian); not a wacko Bible-thumper (www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com); what happened to me when i got a divorce after 31 years of abuse.

I went back to school; won a women's scholarship, because of what I have overcome in my life; written my memoir and my poetry book: Sanctuary of the Soul (poems of anguish, healing, hope, comfort and celebration).....plenty of angst along with other things...

Is there anything that interests you? Feel free to e-mail me if you like: [email protected] am also a moderator of an abused survivors' group.

Hugs, Alice